Friday, October 19, 2007
What is your opinion on Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory's suspension of Dr. James Watson's administrative responsibilities in response to his alleged racial comments published in the October 14, 2007 edition of The Sunday Times in the U.K.?
10/19/2007
Dr. Watson's disparaging remarks about people of African descent appears to be consistent with his past minimization of Dr. Rosalind Franklin's contribution to the structure of the DNA molecule. One of his comments regarding Dr. Rosalind's crystallography analysis showing the double helical structure of DNA was that she was "dowdy". I would like to hear someone critique his appearance. What does that mean to scientific analysis? Doesn't it say something about the sense of insecurity of the speaker? I pity people who must denigrate others to feel important. Would Dr. Watson's "omniscience" be threatened if he acknowledged another? I am very pleased that they institution has publicly taken a stand and not disregarded an obvious insult to all of us.
10/19/2007
Watson is nearly 80, if I am not mistaken. His senility crept up a long time ago. He has now joined Shockley, who was also a Nobelist, and tried his best to establish the science of eugenics. Watson has always been a controversial figure. It is good he speaks his mind because people can see what is deep inside him-- all his bigotry and prejudices. In a recent publicity tour of his book, "Avoid boring peole," in San Diego, which I attended, he proved beyond any doubt what a bore he was. His attitude towards women has, if anything, become more degrading than his comments about Rosalind Franklin. And, would you belive it, he was using the four- letter word F...? I am glad the CSHL took the decision they took and the London book reading was cancelled. Now, the racists can quote him ad verbatim.
10/20/2007
Brilliant people may be outspoken and unique. They may be calling a spade a spade. But age should mellow people. Also a scientist must be rigorous in his approach and should not state anything that is less than firmly established. An ordinary citizen may say what he wants and attribute his or her statements to freedom of speech. But luminaries like Heads of States or Nobel Laureates should not indulge in loose talk. Even otherwise it is a well documented fact that Dr. Watson treated Dr. Rosalind Franklin like trash. I wonder if there is a statute in the Nobel bylaws to revoke the Nobel Prize once conferred. Frankly, we Indians do not much care for the Nobel Prizes ever since Mahatma Gandhi,(compare Al Gore with the Mahatma) the greatest apostle of peace who ever walked the Earth after Jesus Christ, was denied the Peace prize, but then for the sake of other Nations who still value the Nobel Prize, the Nobel Committee should do something. And I hope it will.
10/20/2007
He did not say "Blacks". He said "Africans". Africa is indeed lagging far far behind in areas the West takes for granted. Plumbing, clean water, electricity, hygene, etc. If he is guilty of anything, it's for stating the obvious. People of European descent, in general, are forever trying to prove that they themselves are not rascists. Therefore, when someone says something that can be interpreted as blundt or insensitive, they distance themselves from that by pointing a finger away from themselves. This man simply stated a fact. Instead of piling on him, debate him. Prove him wrong with facts and data. Not a trial by a society of people afraid to speak the truth for fear of "feelings".
10/20/2007
I say baloney to the two posters on this forum defending Watson. The last of them suggested that anyone opposing Watson should come up with evidence. Given how far out of the scientific mainstream Watson's statements were, HE should be the one who should have to show evidence and it damn sure better stand up to peer review. There is no room in science for racist remarks and the best way to show Dr. Watson how far out of touch he is is by showing him how far away from him the rest of us can put distance. What a cretin.
10/21/2007
CSHL's decision to suspend James Watson as chancellor is entirely appropriate. However, it would be a grave mistake to conclude that his remarks on Africa, Africans and black Americans are simply the ravings of a once-great scientist with rapidly diminishing mental capacity. While he could undoubtedly benefit from a serious course of therapy, the man is still very sharp and lucid. Furthermore, James Watson has been, and continues to be, a tireless advocate for using the research of the Human Genome Project and genetic engineering for both negative and positive eugenics purposes for many, many years now. A well-written layman's article that describes both Watson's opinions on eugenics and the current debate in the human genome/genetics scientific community on the appropriateness of using genomic information for eugenics purposes can be found here: http://www.alternet.org/story/16026/ As Watson himself wrote on page 208 of his book "A Passion for DNA": "we must not fall into the absurd trap of being against everything Hitler was for" (meaning, here, building a better human). As an alternative to killing or sterilizing Africans for allegedly being less intelligent than northern/northwestern Europeans, Watson's views tend toward supporting the establishment of a targeted eugenics program designed to modify the genomes of Africans in order to "bring them up to European standards", as it were. It's important not to let the furor over the crudeness of Watson's remarks obscure the fact that a significant segment of the human genome/genetics community currently is broadly sympathetic with much of his neo-eugenics perspective--while not necessarily agreeing with all of the details. If neo-eugenics is the future of humanity (or at least Western civilization), we should be clear-and-open-eyed about where all this could be headed.
10/22/2007
Asians on average do best on IQ tests. The Chinese researcher Dr Bruce Lahn reported a genetic evolution that occurred in human beings about 6,000 years ago and is believed to be an important contributing factor in intelligence. Scientists who have researched this mutation have found evidence that it was geographically dispersed in Europe, Asia, and North Africa. Sub-saharan Africa was geographically isolated by comparison, so the mutation occured there at a much lower incidence. This is not simple IQ sampling on racial lines - it's statistical data examining for the presence of a precise genetic trait that scientists believe to be connected to the brain's size and function. This research appeared in one of the leading peer reviewed journals a year ago: "Ongoing adaptive evolution of ASPM, a brain size determinant in Homo sapiens. Science, 309:1720 (2005).
10/23/2007
Roger Woods and co-workers at UCLA published a peer-reviewed article in Human Molecular Genetics last year that largely refutes Lahn's claim that the normal variants of the ASPM gene are major contributors to the variation in brain volume (alleged to be tightly linked to intelligence, with larger brain volume = higher intelligence) in humans ("Normal variants of Microcephalin and ASPM do not account for brain size variability", Human Mol. Genet. 15(12): 2025 (2006)). Interestingly, both gene variants (but particularly the Microcephalin gene variant) that Lahn reported being under strong positive selection pressure in Europeans and Asians turn out to actually contribute to a small DECREASE in the brain sizes of these two population groups, not an increase. (Oops!) It actually appears more likely that the two gene variants reported by Lahn are involved in immune defense or tumor suppression, given that they're both expressed outside the brain, perhaps strongly so. Anyone hear anything new on Watson? Did CSHL formally terminate him, or are they still letting him cool his heels under a suspension? If they fire him, he'll have to move out of that beautiful house that CSHL built for him on their campus.
10/23/2007
I doubt whether CSHL will terminate him. They will simply shift his responsibilities from his usual administrative duties to something else. What a shame he has landed himself in such hot water without realizing the fallout his comments might make! We all appreciate his contribution in modern molecular biology but that's no excuse. I know he does not believe in being PC [yes, it can go to extremes]-- nor do I, if it means hiding the truth-- but I wish he would back up his statements with properly validated studies and not just expect people to accept whatever he says because of his stature.
10/25/2007
How many times has the established "scientific" community attacked an idea based only on their opinion and the "accepted" theory of the day? Have we not learned anything in the past 2000+ years? All that matters is fact..data...controlled and repeatable. I for one do not care about the scientific community "feeling threatened" by political forces seeking to undermine its credibility" (read dollars) or it's "perceived" honor. I agree, "The scientific enterprise is based on the promotion and proof of new ideas through evidence, however controversial, but"... but what? Dr. Watson is labeled prejudice, racist and his comments vicious. His statement is labeled being "unsupported by science". So where are the controlled studies? Where is the DATA to support either claim? I have not seen properly designed studies or factual data to support either. This is a "taboo topic" and no one wants to risk their professional and personal career to say, publish or promote anything other than the politically correct ideology. As always, the facts will be reveled in time. Are we still so afraid of the truth in this day and age? Sadly, yes.
10/25/2007
Well, it looks like Watson will be moving out of Ballybung after all. CSHL announced his resignation today. It's over.
10/25/2007
His resigned by sending the CSHL trustees an e-mail, not by speaking to them face-to-face. He didn't even show them the courtesy of using formal stationery for the resignation letter. He included a Richard Nixon-style remark in his e-mail, talking about how morally upright his parents were ("my mother was a saint"-RN). In the end, he couldn't resist adding one final, bitter touch to the whole sorry affair.
10/26/2007
The woman who interviewed Watson for the Sunday Times article had worked as his lab assistant at CSHL for a year in the mid-1990s, while she was a student at an elite girls' boarding school in England. Basically, Watson thought he was "among friends", and forgot that his former lab assistant was now an intrepid science reporter for one of the most influential newspapers in Britain.
10/26/2007
CSHL's decision to suspend James Watson as chancellor is not entirely needed. He is racist and needs to live with it... I GUESS that is ultimate price he pays for having to deal with his own feelings of inadequacy. We still need to keep in mind about our First Amendment " freedom of speech", and as a citizen he has the right to express his beliefs. I don't agree with his opinion, but it shows that even brilliant mind has its down.
10/26/2007
I definitely agree he has the right to free speech unhindered...by the Federal government. But CSHL is a private research institute, and so isn't required to abide by the First Amendment (and it doesn't). That's something anyone who chooses to work for a private employer, instead of a government agency, needs to keep in mind before signing the employment contract.
10/26/2007
Is this chapter going to end? I think not. What is going to happen is that Watson will write another book and it would be a best-seller, making lots of money for him and the publisher. In his recent San Diego talk, he said he did not get a penny raise from Harvard after winning the Nobel Prize but it did not matter, because he wrote a book [I think "Double Helix"] and doubled his salary. I wish him a happy retirement. However, my guts tell me many companies will now ask him to join their scientific advisory board and he can name his price.
10/26/2007
In his quest to rekindle his fading image, Dr Watson has opted to ignore the basis of scientific discourse. He has dispensed with rigour (developed from reliable evidence and validity) and put in its place cheap populism and anecdotes. The chap has clearly lost it and should now be sidelined for the good of science and common decency.
10/28/2007
I must defend Dr Watson and his work. After all, the history will judge him. He will be remembered forever, and no one can contest that. As of his opinions, who remembers what and how Plank, Einstein, Mechnikov, Pavlov said. I bet, there is a plenty controversy there. I want to point out he is a mountain, and we only hope to be a hill. We only can say something meaningful when we above that montain. Ha-Ha, it would ever happen.
2/22/2008
The powers that be have decided that the musings of an eminent scientist be smothered in their bed, along with the muser. Such is the folly of political correctness that plagues science today. As long as scientists adhere to Orwell's Groupthink, they will be honored and accepted. Banishment awaits any heretic. Commenters above are correct. Watson will write another book and continue contributing to the sciences. And, we will continue to be the beneficiaries of those contributions.
4/7/2008
It is amazing how many self-proclaimed experts on the truth there are. Who knows more about genetics? You or the Nobel prize winner who discovered DNA?
5/25/2008
Will anyone be so kind to write a link to Dr Watson research on intelligence that sparked the controversy? I have read it online last year,but I seem unable to find it again. Thank you
6/2/2008
Watson is an idiot. His theory is "hog wash."
6/2/2008
Watson is an idiot. His theory is "hog wash."
6/16/2008
What was interesting was watching those who sought to defend Watson's remarks. Richard Dawkins for example referred to the 'thought police'of being 'illiberal and intolerant' and of 'hounding' John Watson. However, the truth is that I and many other taxpayers, were not prepared to give oxygen to Watson's racist propaganda in order to publicise his latest book. Watson appeared to think, like many before him, that Black people are an easy target. However, the best way to treat people like him, is not only with contempt (the usual course of action with those of us of African descent), but also to put pressure on the organisations (that we help pay for) from which they hope to obtain funds.
One wonders how 'illiberal and intolerant' Dawkins and others of his ilk would have been if an eminent African had said 'White people are paedophiles and serial killers’?
If Watson had kept his unpalatable thoughts to himself he may have kept his 'world class reputation'. One does not disagree that he has a reputation; it is however, a questionable one.
9/18/2008
He's absolutely correct.
10/7/2008
He obviously got his information from the data he collected. If he is right then he is right, facts are facts. People use racism as an excuse to disregard his research just because it prooves a disadvantage. That's too bad.
10/13/2008
To Realist: Actually, he's not, but thanks for playing. To Paleontologist: The problem is that he isn't right, nor were statements based on sound scientific data. To the guy who mentioned PC-ness, I'm actually not too fond of PC-ness. I am fond of scientific accuracy, however.
10/19/2008
watson has become increasingly senile within these past couple of years. from seeing him walk around cshl, one can tell that he is not the person he used to be. aging is a sad fact of life, and i think we should just cut the old guy some slack, although i do agree he went way out of line with those statements. btw cshl won't dare force him out of the lab. just think of how much money this guy donated to the lab as a result of his fame and his own personal donations. the current president of cshl, bruce stillman, i believe is no where as good as watson was in terms of securing endowment for the lab.
10/22/2008
On Watson And Racism A. Quote from another forum: "William Saletan wrote a series of articles on Slate late last year indicating that the evidence actually supports what Watson said" http://www.slate.com/id/2178122/entry/2178123/ B. There Is No "Cultural Phenotypic Comparative Intelligence" No matter who William Saletan is and how many articles he wrote on "evidence" re comparative intelligence and where they are printed, There Is No "Cultural Phenotypic Comparative Intelligence". Plain and simple. There is no such thing. There cannot be such a thing. Every scientist who practices scientism will tell you this. It is elementary biology. Watson simply does not know elementary biology, or is incapable of comprehending it. Read the following quotation. Read it slowly, carefully and critically. Intelligence, like every "specific" physical property (f.e. specific weight or specific heat etc.,) is a specific cultural phenotype characteristic. It is a characteristic applicable ONLY WITHIN a defined cultural phenogroup. Plain science.... C. Quote from http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-P81pQcU1dLBbHgtjQjxG_Q--?cq=1&p=109 It's Culture, Not Intelligence, Watson... Watson's statement is not backed by data and is scientifically incorrect. It could have been made by a chemist but not by a biologist. Intelligence and Culture are Biology, not chemistry. A modern updated biologist can state that the Curtain that seperates between USA, China, Russia, Muslim world etc., is the Phenotypic Cultural Curtain, the primary darwinian striving of each phenotype to survive at all costs... But it shall come to pass one day that humans will understand their biological nature and biological environments and cooperate rather than fight for survival... Dov Henis End quote (From DH comments from 22nd century) http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-P81pQcU1dLBbHgtjQjxG_Q--?cq=1&p=109
11/10/2008
The man seems to be both sexist and racist. Intersting. However, I think his comments lend themselves to a really interesting potential for analysis. What evolutionary benefit is gained by engaging in ideas about supremacy and inferiority? Are there groups of people who have evolved, through natural selection, a genetic tendency towards egotism, hurtfulness and the narrow minded inability to recognize the genius of the "other"? Are some people missing a "respect" gene, and if so, how does this missing gene aid in ensuring that these people's genes make it into the next generation?
12/22/2008
I suppose all antiracists are definitely reassured now that BHO has been elected president. I do hope the next four years will confirm their view that "political" intelligence is not linked to race or color.
9/4/2009
Is watson's conclusion based on the current state of Africa? what a morron! I hope in his reasoning, he has an acceptable definition of intelligence, and includes a description on what happens to a society that has its strongests members taken out for centuries.
12/11/2009
Jim Watson has taken lots of heat for saying Africans are intellectually inferior (his statement is certainly stupid). I also know many people from India born as brahmins who also think that non-brahmins are intellectually inferior. People sometimes don't realize that casteism is also bigotry like racism. I have first hand experience in casteism as I was raised in a brahmin family with all the associated prejudices. We must learn to look at each other as humans first - human geneticist have demonstrated in recent years that genetically all humans have lots of similarities. Let us learn to emphasis the overwhelming genetic similarities between humans rather than minor obvious visual differences like skin color.
NOTICE: As such, the comments on this blog were, are, and will always be solely the opinions of the individuals leaving them. In no way does Genetic Engineering & Biotechnology News, GEN Publishing, Inc., or Mary Ann Liebert ,Inc. endorse, condone, agree with, sponsor, etc. these comments.
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